Desmo.org.uk

22 Фев 2015 | Author: | Комментарии к записи Desmo.org.uk отключены
Ducati 350 S Desmo

Largly written and researched by Yardley and members of the Ducati club- and frankly anything I written is in the main things I picked up from DOC members!!

With big thanks to Ditch and from the Pantaheads E mail and all who contribute to the DOC(GB) E mail

Its a lot of info, and I would sujjest you cut and the below into a word doc to at your liesure!

PANTAH

very reliable with overhauls being required at 40 — 50K miles. Oil changes at 1500 miles although miles is used to be on the safe Filters from Citroen Sunbeam Talbot fit

Service

GTX, Mobil One, Super Four, Silkolene Pro 4, R, Morriss’s 10/40, Duckhams Cheap 20/50 Multigrade supermarket. Advice about Castrol R has been given that problems with are found due to high viscosity of the oil at low Silkolene Super Four to be a popular choice. Engine tube can be utilised when oil, remove plug in cover to vent engine.

Cam system to be checked regularly for tension, pulley nuts loose, the tensioner and idler running dry, oil seals The belt tension can be found by a sliding clearance to a 5mm drill bit belt and idler bearings lifting the tensioning bearings up the belt. Cam belts are available at cost within the Club. The bearings are a special non standard size i.e.

11mm These cost £14 from dealers, approx. trade. Three standard 7mm wide can be substituted with a to take up clearance.

Clutch

slip can be eased by inserting steel plate, Friction can become hard and require on some bikes well wear limits are reached. baskets are prone to retaining on primary gear working Surface grinding the steel has been very successful. The heavier clutch fitted to 600 can be used in earlier machines.

cut primaries can also be fitted to up clutch rotation and raise gearing. Clutch shafts can if clutch securing nut loosens. nuts have proved to be difficult to undo on some

Some have had to be drilled to

Weak point on Pantahs when tuned. Improvements by using sintered bronze plates and extra heavy Clutch can be machined to accept an pair of plates. Early hydraulic clutch on 600SL has a problem which can be cured new stock fiber plates and by springs from a Suzuki They are also found on GS1100 models, and so appear to be available.

They fit with a bit of filing. The engagement is a little abrupt but still very and the slip has been non-existent for 10K miles.

Drive

Two gearbox sizes are available 14 15t. The one is recommended to ease chain DID chain recommended. Rear sizes vary from 36 to 41.

The size gives a higher speed for less revs but acceleration and pickup. 41 size engines to rev out in top but makes high cruising less relaxed. failures on early models quite common due to cogs and dogs rounding off. rear cush drive can be eased by inserting slips of tube rubber between housing and rubber spider.

bolts on sprocket can be subject to and also shearing off. tensile UNF bolt conversion has done successfully by MOCATI of

Electrics

The standard Bosch system can fail when the covering on the pick up wires down due to engine oil temperature. tests with the pickups in can be misleading as shorting out against the pick up wire can exist and not be Resistance testing can also be in the same way. Pick ups are the as Mote Guzzi V50 if second-hand are required.

Misfires are sometimes to pickup clearance problems. Rita ignition has been with very positive Pick up mounting point for system is situated outside of the pulley on the cam belt cover. a dry running system engine oil has no damaging affect. Timing can be done without having to alternator cover.

Build quality is poor but has improved by making pick up and cover in stainless steel. pole coils can be substituted the Rita. When using light to time ignition DO NOT inspection window from

Cover is under crankcase and blows oil out when window Spark plugs used are NGK B8HS, B7HV, B8HV from Club) Champion are generally regarded as hopeless, backfiring on start up being a of impending failure. Magnetising of the has caused elusive failures.

rotor mounting nut can loosen in use knocking noise and expensive Locking washer locating has been machined out to fully washer and prevent it flattening use. Regulator failure, modification done by using RS rectifier and Lucas Zener also replacement unit incorporating LED functioning

light.) of battery, (larger battery by cutting clearance space rear mudguard and flattening edge) Front fairing on SL model are same as fitted to fiat cars. Cheap are not recommended. Yuasa Yumicron or used mostly. Standard headlight has sharp cut off pattern. unit fitted as alternative.

Oil switch can rupture internally and … light to remain on engine is running. On early replacement switch can be used Lucas for Volkswagen or Porsche/Audi Check whether thread is (Later switches supplied by have tapered threads).

contacts have this removed and blanked off. indicator switches are prone to through the contacts and from the area. A number of machines this removed and blanked Electrical system is generally

Fuses vibrate loose. battery discharge cured by regulator unit to frame. light failure (RS bulbs can be in original housings).

Starter bushes contaminated by engine oil seal between crankcase and fails, (brushes from car cut down and used). Ducati France has printed two alternative diagrams in their magazine, being done.

Regulator at 40,000km. Rebuilt one substituted. warning light remains irrespective of revs until are turned on, at which point it is irrespective of revs!


Regular applications of WD40 to all connections to keep things reliable. skimp on batteries, buy the best the minute it starts acting up.

Front suspension can be very Experimenting with different oils and spring rates is consuming and expensive. Forks can be by approx.

25mm through to give better steering Yokes from the bevel range have been with packing shims, to up steering response. Complete front ends from series have also fitted. Fork legs and can be difficult to polish up without blow holes.

Standard Strada rear shocks are sprung and under damped. to give reasonable results are not done as the units have to be and the internal damping washers altered. Popular substitute for shocks are Koni Dial-a-Rides. have also been

Spas mono shock done on one machine with good results. Rear arm bearings in engine are notorious for out. Regular checks are plus rotation of the pin. nipple and needle roller have been done, one in the arm ends resulting in less when changing bearings. wheel adjuster blocks can inside swinging arm.

of blocks recommended. Outer can break if over tightened. are two different sizes with a one being positioned next to the calliper mounting plate. stand clearance affected this modification. Rear, and spindle thread size is fine rate.

Crash to frames in small accidents limited to steering stop lugs. Centre stand lug can foul ground if bent. can be altered by welding plates to to increase clearance. Stand can rust and break. Stainless available via Club, also brake pedal return cable clutch arm return

Chrome on clip ons, lever, rear brake assembly is pathetic. Rechroming and joint conversion done on one

Frame is strong in horizontal but tends to flex in vertical. rigidity can be improved by welding to all the engine mounting points and bracing behind the rear Rigidity is further improved by triangular plates at the bottom tubes at the front of the frame to the steering head. Front end and wheel of a RGV 250 have been by adapting the sprocket and making up and fitting axles giving tyre choice.

Rear from an F1 or Alazurra can be fitted. air-valve top nuts have fitted with double lip oil Guzzi S3 handle bars can be to raise riding position. wheels have been Fork dust covers found to provide a lot of stiction to the

Solution is to remove them and use fork gaiters (Norton MZ) for a substantial improvement.

Engine

All used on the machines are C3 grade of type except belt and crankshaft mains. The mains are a clearance type. These are from bearing distributors, as are all the bearings. Do not use cheap C3 bearings. ( C3 to the clearance sizes within a it is NOT a quality specification) SKF and RHP are recommended

Oil seals are standard size lip except for starter motor/crankcase This is 7mm wide (standard Recess in housing can be machined 1mm to take 8mm seal. Double lip are recommended for forks and cam belt pulley. If persistent oil leak on pulley exists a baffle can be in the pulley bearing.

Persistent oil from filler plug on dry engine covers cured by longer threaded plug model. Desmo shimming and setting print out available. of alloy castings varies

Cylinder head and inlet are susceptible to blow holes.

raced hard little can break off. Over can cause cases to crack the bottom pulley at the oilway to the head causing oil to pump Repair by removing bearing bore through oilway and fit a 8mm bolt. This pulls together and is sealed with glue/sealant. The bolt is then to re-establish the oilway.

Crossland oil code 673 can be used. Big bore can cause reduced compression and negate their CC advantages if is not paid to the combustion chamber Post 84 750 crank and pistons can be for a conversion but the crancase mouths to be opened out.

750 crank is to be better for this conversion the 650 Alazurra crank due to the better factor. Only later cases are suitable for a big bore as they are considerably stronger. For a a standard plastic flapper from an automotive power vacuum booster (available at any parts store) can be used and run the overboard.

Appears to work fine, except for the following When the crankcase level is up to the max line on the sight glass, a lot of oil is out the breather (or somewhere in that it’s hard to pinpoint the This problem goes if filled only to the min line, and a test indicated good

Tuning

Engine tuning is and can make the bike unreliable. Mez are the acknowledged experts for gas flowing. guide wear can be high larger valves are fitted due to guides being short. guides have been and installed.

Standard valve will accept a small in over-size valves external oil to camshaft bearing blocks to cure persistent leakage internal supply O ring. modifications to engine can be done. valves (inlet from 750

and gas flowing produce good without impairing reliability. CC above 498cc available are 598, 612, 640, 680, 750*, 850*, (* = longer stoke crank 650 engine from 650 SL and Alazzura as desirable. Crankshaft on one F2 racing has been modified by cutting and alternator rotor part and rebalancing.

Removal of flywheel engine to build up revs Alternative ignition system Engine tickover of 6000 rpm on the F2 Oil cooler can be plumbed in by routing from oil pressure switch in crankcase (10mm x 1.0mm) cooler and into camshaft blocks.

Restricted line can be extended cam feeds to supply oil directly to selector drum via tapping on of crankcases. Internal oil feeds to blanked off by dowel in feed of barrel or head. This cools oil to heads only. engine cooling is done by clutch cover modified to tappings coinciding with oil outlet drilling and crankshaft housing in cover. Internal oil in cover is ground out and blanked off by

A restricted by pass line can be between the supply and return to give instant oil supply to on start up. Later 750 type have double tappings to cooler as standard, MOCATI oil temperature conversion fitted to one using sender unit into oil strainer plug.

and Tyres

Pirelli Phantom, AM20-21, Metzeler BT 45. The Avons are not regarded in the wet. Standard 110 size can be increased to 120 but can cause problems due to larger cross roll radius. Tubeless are NOT suitable as FPS wheels are not designed to them. Wheels are regarded as but strong, with the gold very difficult to remove.

If damaged can usually repaired by Alf Later 3 spoke pattern as Alazzura have been Wire spoked wheels Yamaha TZ250 have adapted to fit. New wire are available (very

expensively) via Equipment.

Bodywork

Quality of panels is poor. Crash usually causes severe due to high filler content. compartment base in seat of SL can loosen and fall out. fibreglass fairings for early SL are reported as not available.

Later MK2 exist also Twin version available from Fibre(WF) Full twin fairing available from Manufacturing. Full racing NCR fairing to fit standard frame (WF) 900SS half has been used. Fibreglass mudguards in three styles plus fibre rear

One machine has had seat restyled by allowing extra room for and vents moulded into shock absorber bulges. sides can touch frame and cam cover. Rubbers used on have been used on top of rubbers to avoid contact. fuel capacity can be obtained by central air filter housing and away bottom of tank and Flush filler has been to one bike.

Plastic lever on tap can snap off. Taps Paso fit although no reserve Alloy F2 tank can be fitted but is 5 than standard. NCR style tank is available.

500SL is roughly the same as Porsche Fairing can be supported by fitting a replica type brace. to improve the look of the rear of the have been done a ford transit tail and Renault indicator lights.

has dual headlight fairings for SL’s on their website.

Some bikes suffer very poor brakes others have no problems. calliper bikes are improved by large master cylinder later model and bevel Modifications to improve standard include Goodridge hoses, calliper pistons, stainless pins, discarding front unit and doubling brake to master cylinder, bleed at master cylinder banjo (ignition key clearance problems using this), drilling to link cavity present at joint to hose entry.

pads recommended are Brembo compound, Ferodo,EBC, Vesrah via the club). Failure of the friction has been reported due to rust material off backing plate machine has been used in bad Regular checks are advised.

discs rust overnight and can pad friction material. Poor performance has been improved by discs with acetone to grease and oil contamination. Cadmium of discs has been done to rusting.

Regular checks on disc surface condition and Some discs are very to minimum tolerance from making remachining difficult. drilling has been done to discs on one machine without effect on reliability. Existing can be opened slightly. Radially holes in outer edge of have been used to and create turbo cooling.

Noise from rear when bike wheeled is caused by calliper mounting vibrating, cured by a small wedge on one machine! Permanent found by floating the calliper mounting arm attached to crankcase.

+ Forks

Rusting of discs to cause problems with of the friction material and significant in braking capacity. Original hoses caused very lever. Goodridge hoses much better feel, but hefty squeeze required to hard. Suspension Original very harsh on bumpy and started to leak after kms. Replaced with shocks with fully preload (threaded collar) and

More compliant but probably not the high cost. Front filled with 225cc of fork oil rather than as per handbook. Much improved Works Performance gas shocks been fitted with results.

They also shocks for a number of old Ducatis on website.

Exhaust

Standard is double skinned, heavy, and difficult to remove. Internals of deteriorate rapidly. Balance and front pipes can corrode and make removal very On one bike brackets on balance have been removed and using spacer washers bracket and engine casing.

crossover tube in balance can be blown through to remove to exhaust gases. Alternative

2 — 2 Standard with ends cut just after baffle 2 — 2 Standard silencer internals removed 2 — 2 Stainless ‘Armours 2 — 2 Conti ‘production 2 — 2 Waffen Fibre fibre end cans. 2 — 2 open meggas (racing) 2 1 Roberts stainless long pipes 2 — 1 Conti 2 1 Verlicchi race pipe old ladies and Christians!) 2 — 1 front pipes/ Waffen carbon end can 2 — 1 Gianelli 2 1 GM race pipe (very fit) 2 — 1 Harris 2 — 1 Harris alloy end can 2 1 Theresby RH exit (very made) 2 — 1 Hejira 2 — 1 Yardley large anti reversion special 2 — 1 F1/Matchless standard

Gianelli 2-1 was fantastically loud and great on over-run but changing to 2-2 sport system produced a resonant note and seemed to smoothness throughout the rev range. might be psychological though, Conti stampings on the pipes do things to you! Contis are available brand new in Australia but are Stop them rusting by a cup of old engine oil each long

You look like a 2-… for a of miles but the oil coats the internals and the bank manager happy.

Cam

If the bike is left inactive for periods the cam belt bearings can The ultimate effect is a broken due to friction between the belt and the bearing. At low engine speed the was nil.

At high engine the impact is not worth thinking Squirt of WD40 on the bearings re-starting the bike seems to seizure. Big engine … is tensioned belts.

Steel are recommended as replacements for the earlier pulleys.

Starter Motor

wore out in 29,000kms. Replacements to be soldered in place. Ducati expensive but fitted easily. also made horrible noise which was found to be bearing on the shaft.

Solution was to and tap a hole in the end cover to accept a grease nipple. Be careful not to Condition thought to be the result of ingress.

Fuel Tank

Pantahs with removable cap allow ingress of substantial which rusts the bottom of the Solution is to treat tank chemical liner and regularly

Ignition

Ignition pick up can cause problems and are best with Teflon coated or resistant wire.

Gearbox

and fifth gears can blow but seem to last forever. gears have good Pantahs after frame 660901 had a fifth gear altered from 1:0.9 to

Instruments

Replacement speedos can be from Honda 550 K3 and 750 F2 but are a little in their readings.

Ducati 350 S Desmo

Carbs

Transmission snatch 3500RPM can be cured by filing out the on carb slides by an eighth of an if air screw adjustments don’t it. 40mm Dell’Orto pump jet can be fitted if replacement manifolds are up. K N filters and ditching the airbox is a modification.

General

My Contribution Volt drop from to ignition units was found to be (2.3 Volts) when button pressed. This unreliable starting as ignition only fire on release of button. Cure was found by relay to switch directly the fuse box to the ignition units. was a volt drop of only 0.2 and reliable starting even a half … battery. Due to system, battery discharges when ignition is off.

replacing regulator the best is to remove earth battery when leaving bike for more than a few days or use a battery charger suitable for connection (£45). Electrical are rubbish and have all been by quality crimps fitted a ratchet crimping tool. box corrodes badly.

I found out my bike is on it’s third box. If it looks like again I will replace something of higher quality. dial-a-rides found to be under and over damped (I’m 15 in battle dress. Front preloader tubes cut to 135mm.

of 20 grade JP1 oil used.

Piston, and … choises

Now, to the complete matter, since I already considered all mix-matches of (and as yet done none) and a has fitted 82 mm pistons to an Alazzurra 350

1) All Pantahs were created only three crankshaft 51mm, 58 mm and 61.5mm

2) All Pantahs created with identical cylinders, so they can all fit the same

3) Pantah pistons came in 62 and bores for the 51mm crank; 74 and 80 mm for the 58 mm crank and 82 and 88 mm bores for the 61.5 mm

4) All Pantahs have the same (900cc NOT included), so big ends and ends are identical in all engines: on the on the shaft and on the piston.

5) any Pantah will fit in any Pantah crankcases, the only relevant exception of SL500 cases which their specific cylinders

6) the combinations of shafts and pistons give capacities of 350, 500, 580, 650 and 750 cc

7) the above and apparent interchangeability will the fantasy of home tuners who are imagining an 88×51 super-short Pantah 622cc

8) unfortunately, the cylinders all the same length, the of shorter … engines be longer than those of … in order to reach the Exactly half-…-difference longer

9) a piston matched with a of shorter … will a greater squish height; a matched with a crankshaft of … will hit the head. if an 82 mm bore piston coming a 61.5mm … motor is to a 58mm … motor, the band will be 1.75 mm

10) all Pantahs were created three types of heads: one small ports and a small which was fitted with and 33.5 valves and coupled the 62 and 70.5 bore pistons, one medium ports and a medium dome, fitted with and 37.5 valves and coupled all other pistons and one with big and big dome, fitted with 36 and 41 mm coupled only with the version of 88 mm pistons (F1B)

11) means that if you fit a different pairs to a certain Pantah without modifications, not only height will be affected but squish band width, and valve-to-piston clearances.

12) if on the other you shorten the cylinder to adjust the heigth but you retain the standard you might end up with the compression of a diesel and the belts will be too and will stay loose.

13) it is to fix compression values by machining the and/or the piston domes and tension by elongating the belt hole, but at this point the will have rotated a few when machining the piston you will probably also to machine the valve grooves.

14) you can still machine a new groove in the to re-position the camshaft with the angle, but at this point you have: shortened the cylinder; the head and piston dome; belt adjuster, machined the pulleys and perhaps re-balanced the and fitted bigger valves and Your mix-matched motor at this point have you more than a bigger, motor (Alazzurra and Elefant 650 are and plentiful).

the early 500s with the banana fairing) had holes in the ‘box to accomodate and the cylinders had accordingly a smaller diametre in the part that in the ‘box. The holes were to accept the 600’s bigger cylinders and the modification was standardized on all including the 500, 400 and 350.

mod went more or less with the new stronger 3 dogs so if you have the old motor you will have the weaker gearbox to the Pantah’s part list at ducatimeccanica.com) the old cylinders and gearboxes are on nos. 600001 to 601653 and to 602528 while the new gearbox was to motors from no. 603246 My Pantah 500 has motor no. 600508 so it has of the old things. ciao Luca

in a Pantah. Just what of parts will I need to a

650 Aly into a 750 motor?

I just in the manual, the Aly has an 82mm bore and a mm

….

Does this that I can bore out the liner and in a set of 88 mm

pistons? (Discounting the Nikasil or course) Or do I have to

find a set of from an F1?

both options are F1 (or Elefant-Indiana-early modern SS) cylinders fit without mods.

Will the still fit? Would the have to be rebalanced. Can I

Changing 659 750.

do this on the cheap?

F1A had the head as the Alazzurra so F1A pistons match the standard head. Not F1B The Alazzurra was already under-valved as a 650 so as a 750!

Reccomended reading

Reading Write Ups Classic — June 1998 750 in Verlicchi frame. Dymag etc. Mmmmm nice.

and Motorcycle Mechanics — No. 105 1996 Adelaide’s Docteur big bored and tuned Pantah. tips about frame and common pantah engine

Motorcycle International Classics of the 70s and 80s Summer 1989 Write up on 500 SL Pantah. General buying

Classic and Motorcycle Mechanics No. 128, 129, 130, 133, 135 Series of articles restoration of a rather sad looking which turns out to have bored to 600. Covers restoration cosmetic and partial but not in a lot of depth.

Classic Bike Jan 1998 Standard 500SL mk1 at time by Baines racing. write up on well maintained Excellent pictures.

Books

Books — Ducati Portfolio 1978-82 Articles at the time the Pantah was released. A read. (11 Pantah articles out of 41

Mick Walker — Twins Restoration 240 pages with good detail of bikes for getting that just right. Model specs, carb and shimming (Pantah 350, 500, 650 XL, SL and TL

covered)

Mick Walker Ducati Buyers Guide of model photographs and gives historical and model development Another good reference (Pantah 10 pages)

Ducati 350 S Desmo
Ducati 350 S Desmo

Interesting

Tagged as:

Other articles of the category "Ducati":

Twitter-news
Our partners
Follow us
Contact us
Our contacts

dima911@gmail.com

Born in the USSR

423360519

About this site

For all questions about advertising, please contact listed on the site.


Motorcycles catalog with specifications, pictures, ratings, reviews and discusssions about Motorcycles.